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Old 06-25-2003, 01:43 AM   #1
dutch455

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Default hp??? 455

Hello, I want to know how much power my 455 olds will have when I build it up. I'ts an Olds 455 '76 engine 0.30 oversize, an edelbrock performer kit (manifold, cam, 750cfm) and ported "J" heads, compr ratio 8.5-1. Who can tell me the hp and torque

thanks

Matt

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Culass "s" 71

http://www.home.zonnet.nl/rocket350/

Last edited by dutch455 : 06-30-2003 at 05:58 AM.
 
Old 06-25-2003, 04:06 PM   #2
jpekarek

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Your going to have between 440 and 450 ft lbs of torque in the 3000 to 3500 rpm range.

Probably be looking at 375 - 400 horsepower.

Horsepower doesnt mean a lot on the street and especially in a long stroke 455. Torque is what moves the car.
 
Old 06-25-2003, 10:47 PM   #3
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It'll be closer to 300-325hp. Torque will be up there though like what was said above.
The compression ratio will hurt you. And that cam is too tame for a 455. I have it in mine and it is just plane pathetic performance wise.
I'd at least jump the compression up to around 9.5:1 (you'll need premium pump gas) and get a cam that is at least in the 220@.050 range.
But then again it all depends on how you plan on driving the car. Street/Strip? Street only?
Definitely have the J heads ported properly. Or save some time and get a set of C,E,G, etc heads and be ahead of the game.
Just some thoughts,
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1987 Cutlass Supreme FE3X Clone project
EFI455/T-56 6 speed/4.30

 
Old 06-26-2003, 07:33 AM   #4
marose84cutlass
 
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There is a guy here in KC who builds racing engines for all makes but specializes in Olds engines. He lights up when someone brings to him a project for an olds engine build up. I talked to him on several occasions in regards to using a 455 from a 76 Delta 88 which has the J-casting heads for my 84 cutlass. I wanted to get close to the 69-71 455 with 390hp & 500lbs. of torque. Here's what he told me in a nutshell.

I won't get to those numbers because of compression, but I could make about 350-375hp and around 425-460lbs. of torque with these suggestions:

J-heads: port as good as possible (grind egr bumps, smooth out runners, etc.). Put new valves in that have been back cut or get a good 3 angle valve job if this is just a street motor.

Intake: E-brock performer w/ a 1" spacer. This will help the hp without eliminating too much of the torque. He doesn't recommend the torker intake.

Carb: q-jet with a few mods and good rebuild kit, nothing fancy.

Cam: He prefers the lunati bracket master cam, but said any other cam with a close profile to this would do.

He also said that if I wanted to raise compression that I should look into aftermarket pistons and using the steel shim head gaskets that they used back in th 70s. I haven't started this project, but this is what I'm going to do. I think the smogger 455 is pretty decent for a street/stip car. We have to keep in mind when we look at factory hp/torque ratings on engines that in '72 on up, GM used the net hp/torque ratings from the tranny and not gross. So depending on the tranny you use, you could be getting more or less power to the rear wheels. JMO
 
Old 06-26-2003, 12:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by marose84cutlass

Put new valves in that have been back cut or get a good 3 angle valve job if this is just a street motor.
If I'm not mistaken, J heads all used small 2.00 inch intake valves, so it would be a good idea to get 2.071 inch intake valves, and maybe larger exhaust valves if they're not already 1.625s.
 
Old 06-26-2003, 12:31 PM   #6
7988

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I had a similar setup on my sleeper Custom Cruiser wagon a while ago. It was 214/224 cam slightly cleaned up J heads, low comp pistons, headers, std intake and 750 edelbrock.

First the wagon was with original 2.73 gears, and later swapped up to 3.73. With 2.73s the engine worked fine, good idle and tons of torque from idle. It also felt nice powerful when floored. With 373s it was too mild setup... when you hit pedal to the metal, soon the engine was out of the power range.

The moral of this story is... eventhough it was 8.5cr engine, 214/224 cam is too mild for a 455. Im sure the 224/234 cam would work better even with stock converter and 2-series rear gears. Im not saying 214/224 is a bad choice, ... but after a few months you know what i mean... cam-kits are cheap
 
Old 06-26-2003, 12:44 PM   #7
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QUOTE]If I'm not mistaken, J heads all used small 2.00 inch intake valves, so it would be a good idea to get 2.071 inch intake valves, and maybe larger exhaust valves if they're not already 1.625s.[/quote]

Yes, the J-heads do have the smaller valves. He said it wasn't necessary to put bigger valves in it if you were using it for a street car and did not plan on reving it very high. The exhaust chambers are choked a bit on J-heads so bigger valves wouldn't do much good unless you opend up the exhaust runners a bit. Not getting new valves keeps the cost down a bit and I was on a budget. Maybe he was telling me this to earn my business, but from what most olds racers around here tell me is he knows his stuff. Of course if you had the money I would suggest putting bigger valves in the heads. But then, you have to pay for the machine work and have the heads fully ported to open the exhaust runners up. By this time you would have been better off finding a better casting of heads with bigger valves and get a home porting kit.

If you want to keep the J-heads and cost to a minimun, this is the way to go.
 
Old 06-26-2003, 02:39 PM   #8
don71

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Hey marose 84 cutlass, Were you referring to Don Mann (sp?) in the earlier post, about the engine builder?
 
Old 06-26-2003, 10:34 PM   #9
dallam3

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Well, I don't want to through water on the high horse power fires from the big block but the other day on the way home form work a newer Nissan Pathfinder was right on my back bumper and as soon as the road opened up a bit he floored it to go around me. I couldn't resist so I floored my 81 Cutty with a mild 455 and yes I stayed in front of him but just bairly. I really figured that as I gained speed I would out torque him but he stayed right behind me! Finally, a car pulled into my lane so I slowed down and the Pathfinder went past me. Later on, I was shopping and looked at a Car and Drive magazine and saw that the Pathfinder has 240 horse power and only 250 pounds of torque. The real bad part was that the Pathfinder weighs 4200 pounds! The Cutty weighs about 3700 to 3800 pounds so that means that my big block is putting out less than the Nissian's. So much for the upwards of 400 pounds of torque that I thought I had! My 455 has 8.9 compresson Keight Black piston's and slightly ported "J" heads. The exhaust is stock 307 manifolds and single exhaust to a Camaro Hooker transverse muffler with twin tail pipes. The cam is the 204/214 and the intake is stock with a stock Q-jet. The auto feels very torquey and dosen't miss a beat and pulls solidly all the way to the shift point of the transmission which is about 4700 rpm. Also, the rear is a posi 3.23. All in all, I really am satisfied with the way the auto runs but I really thought that I would pull (albit slowely) away from the Pathfinder but that didn't happen!
 
Old 06-26-2003, 10:45 PM   #10
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That exhaust system and cam are killing your performance. I had the stock 307 cat back exhaust (all but the actual manifolds) on my 455 to start with for a year or so. With a stock cast iron intake and Q-jet along with a 214/224 Performer cam and my best time in the 1/4 was a 14.5@95mph.
By just switching to true dual W/Z manifolds and a true dual exhaust I dropped a full .5 seconds off the ET.
Just because the engine has more CI doesn't mean its going to be fast. Just look at the new LS1 pushrod and 4.6L modular engines. The LS1 is only a 346cid engine and the 4.6 is a 281cid but are very fast engines. Well, the LS1 more so than the 4.6 but they'll still move.
Of course they do have the advantage of modern technology, decent flowing cylinder heads, and such.


Quote:
Originally posted by dallam3
The exhaust is stock 307 manifolds and single exhaust to a Camaro Hooker transverse muffler with twin tail pipes. The cam is the 204/214 and the intake is stock with a stock Q-jet.
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1987 Cutlass Supreme FE3X Clone project
EFI455/T-56 6 speed/4.30

 
Old 06-26-2003, 11:04 PM   #11
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Hey Big Olds, do you mean that you had the dual exhaust cat back exhaust like the 442 on your ride initially? I would be very happy with a 14.5 second street car. I figure my auto is only good for the mid 15s now.
 
Old 06-26-2003, 11:20 PM   #12
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Yes. It was the Walker replacement cat-back that I bought through the local auto parts store. I was running the manifolds that came on the '76 455 along with the crossover pipe. But from the downpipe back it was all from the 307.
I'm also running 3.73 gears along with a TH-2004R trans.

Quote:
Originally posted by dallam3
Hey Big Olds, do you mean that you had the dual exhaust cat back exhaust like the 442 on your ride initially? I would be very happy with a 14.5 second street car. I figure my auto is only good for the mid 15s now.
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EFI455/T-56 6 speed/4.30

 
Old 06-27-2003, 03:22 AM   #13
dutch455

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ok, I'm a little bit wiser and I know the J heads are the main (bad) factor. I run now a 3" exhaust and flowmaster 40 mufflers and headers with my org. 350 2bbl/ th350. The difference between the oem headers and the flowtech headers is very hugh topspeed 15+ miles and torque have increase and I think it also will work with the 455. I will change the pistons to a 10:1 comp ratio next year (I will work here in the Netherlands with 95 or 98 pumpgas) I' m gone to look for the C heads..... thanks for your reply's

Matt
 
Old 06-27-2003, 06:08 AM   #14
marose84cutlass
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by don71
Hey marose 84 cutlass, Were you referring to Don Mann (sp?) in the earlier post, about the engine builder?
Yep. That's the guy. His shop is called Mann Speed. From what I understand is he's the olds man around here.
 
Old 06-27-2003, 01:42 PM   #15
7988

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>I' m gone to look for the C heads

Why not Edelbrock's, much easier to find
 
Old 06-30-2003, 05:32 AM   #16
dutch455

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Yeah, summit $1534,- then to the Netherlands ------->
+/- $ 700 shippingcosts =$2200 I don't think I can afforded me yet. Maybe next year

Matt
 
 


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