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Old 08-09-2010, 12:19 AM   #1
one442

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Default Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

"Car Craft took a '66 W-30 to the track and clocked it at 13.80/105.20 right of the box. "

Say what you want about magazine testing but I feel they are far more accurate and adhere to certain rather consistent guidelines. Which I have more faith in when scrutinized and compared, than a friend telling me his car is stock and then running some ungodly impressive numbers that make you scratch your head. Don't get me wrong I am all for getting a ride to run quicker but prefer a true baseline to work of off.

I have been researching this type of information for quite some time and this is the quickest time and fastest mph I have ever read/believe.

For comparison some say the 1970 W30 is the quickest beast they ever made but I would put my money on the 66s version. I just cant fathom that power steering and power brakes not to mention being relatively loaded and probably weighing a good 500 pounds more would allow it to be quicker than a 66. Even if it has the extra 55 cubes.

Hot Rod magazine ran a 1970 455 W30 to a 14.10 at 100.5 mph box stock with a 3.91 gear. Phenomenal performance nonetheless.


In any case here is a interesting read on 442s particularly 1966s.

http://www.jcs-group.com/cruisin/muscle/general8.html
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1987 442 STOCK 307 - 15.179 @ 88.58 mph


7A head VIN 9 KZF 200-4R with a 8.5 3.73 air delete. Open/no air filter. 2 1/4" true dual Flowmasters with crossover. Alloy, mags, drums, and rad, 3560 race weight. Timing 22*, 23.8 inch diameter rear tires (4.07). Hypertech S R Chip. Mobile 1


http://one442.blogspot.com/


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1967 Cutlass 2dr 330, 1972 98 455, 1966 442 a2 400, 1971 Eldo 500
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:09 AM   #2
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

I felt the same way until I asked George Berejik which was fastest and he said the 1970 W30 without question. I was surprised but figured he ought to know.

Don't trust magazines as Gospel Phil they have agendas, they can have a moron driving, their guy can be hung over, etc.
Ever hear the story about the guy who gave the 68 H/0 a bad review? This guy panned it and Doc Watson got pissed off reading the article and then he got to the part where the guy mentions the dash board wood trim was "typical fake wood decal" which incensed Doc because the 68 H/O had genuine wood trim on the dash (I've never been in one so I can't say if they all did or just the magazine test car did). So Doc figures out this guy never road tested the car at all he just made the whole thing up. So he took a piece of the dash trim and sends it to the guy with a note that says "Here, go wipe your ass with this". So don't believe everything you read.
I also don't believe there's 500 lb difference between a 66 and a 70 all options being the same.
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1969 442 convert- 400, 200-4R, 3.73 posi, OAI, every option but cruise and power locks

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Old 08-09-2010, 04:34 AM   #3
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

The 67 W30 with the trips on it had the fastest stock class title for like 10 years, I think it ran 12.70 with slicks and headers
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

The 70 W30 came with manual disc brakes and manual steering. You had to order them if you wanted those options, or order A/C when they started to allow that. A/C mandated an auto trans, power brakes, and power steering. Order a Stripper W30 auto in a in the Post body style, and youre talking a car that weighs in the 3300lb range.

I remember an old article from a 70's CarCraft or SuperStock. They took a post W30 auto with 3.91 gears, bolted on a set of 1 7/8 Hookers, a B+M 11 Holeshot Converter(B+M had just started making them), and a set of 28x9 M&H racemasers. Car went 12.60's with the stock converter, 12.30's with the HoleShot installed.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Remember too, that for YEARS Doc Watson claimed the 455 H/O engines in 68 and 69 were not from the factory and that Hurst installed them. He finally admitted that they were GM factory installations. So even then, you got to watch Doc's interpretations of some things.

Also, the 70 W-30s were degutted from regular insulation and such, and as mentioned, the power assisted stuff was optional. They lightened them a pretty good amount.

But, as with any magazine article, believe what you want to believe. Track conditions, r/t, driver skill, and other variables always is different and can make a difference between a 13.80 and a 14.10. That's why they normally run dial-ins before eliminations. Anything rock stock back then running right around 14 isn't surprising considering the factory technology available at the time. You get those Olds engines to breathe and you shave off time significantly. That's why quite a few 69 H/Os and 70-71 W-30s no longer have their orignal air cleaners.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyco Diver 69 View Post
The 67 W30 with the trips on it had the fastest stock class title for like 10 years, I think it ran 12.70 with slicks and headers
That would have been a one-of-none, since the only available carb in 1967 was the Qjet. If you mean 1966, that's different. As for slicks and headers, that's apples and oranges. The magazine tests are for stock, through the mufflers, on period bias ply tires. You can't compare a modified car to a stock one.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:13 AM   #7
Run to Rund

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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

The original owner of 1966 W30 #24 told me it ran 13.30s bone stock. I have a color copy of the Run to Rund car's scrapbook for 1966-67 and it ran a best e.t. of 12.15 and best mph 115 in 1966 in legal NHRA stock form.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Run to Rund View Post
The original owner of 1966 W30 #24 told me it ran 13.30s bone stock.
Does bone stock mean OEM bias plies?
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:19 PM   #9
Run to Rund

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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Yes. That pass was before he did anything to the car. Afterward, he went to 7" slicks, headers, 4.56 gears (stock was 4.11 on all 54 of the factory cars).
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:23 PM   #10
Kev442

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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quite a few years ago, a musclecar rag invited all the contenders to duke it out modern style, meaning good tires and possibly headers but regular spec engines. The winners were the the '70 454 SS, the Stage One '70 Buick and the '66 W30.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84 H/O View Post
Don't trust magazines as Gospel Phil they have agendas, they can have a moron driving, their guy can be hung over, etc.
I dont but I do feel certain road tests can give you a general feel for what a car is truly capable of without the benifit of any tweaking.

I know there can be and have been ringers etc and reading Car&Driver knowadays is like reading a promotional guide for imports.

On the other hand what an owner can do in his own privacy is more open to interpretation IMHO and men very often seem to want to have bragging rights. So I lean towards a publication being a wee bit more forthright.

Additionally Car&Driver, Motor Trend and Road and Track to me are a little more even keel than certain other publications. Old school ones like Car Life seem to have always posted substantially slower specs than others while HotRod and the like have a tendency to get more out of there test vehicles.

Guess what I am trying to do is read between the lines and hopefully get a reasonable base line out of it. I have also been of the mind set that it is harder for a regular individual to replicate published times let alone better them while maintaining stock configuration and test calibrations.
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1987 442 STOCK 307 - 15.179 @ 88.58 mph


7A head VIN 9 KZF 200-4R with a 8.5 3.73 air delete. Open/no air filter. 2 1/4" true dual Flowmasters with crossover. Alloy, mags, drums, and rad, 3560 race weight. Timing 22*, 23.8 inch diameter rear tires (4.07). Hypertech S R Chip. Mobile 1


http://one442.blogspot.com/


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1967 Cutlass 2dr 330, 1972 98 455, 1966 442 a2 400, 1971 Eldo 500
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the magazines performed their 1/4 mile tests? Did they just do one run and publish those numbers or did they do numerous runs and calculate average ETs and trap speeds? Did they wait for consistent weather conditions between one car and the next?
This has turned out to be quite an interesting thread; I thought the 455s in '68/'69 HO cars were Hurst-installed and I've often wondered which (if any) cars were available with manual disc brakes... every car I've ever seen always seems to have either power disc, power drum or manual drum brakes.

- GoldOlds
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1969 Cutlass Supreme: original 350 sbo (stock?), TH350 w/ shift kit, 2.25" dual exhaust w/ Flowmasters, 120gph Carter fuel pump, Edelbrock double-roller timing chain, 12 bolt Chebby rear w/ 3.73 gears, 255/60/15 rear tires, HEI @ 15 initial and 38 advanced w/ Moroso recurve kit (light/medium springs), Accel cap and rotor, Taylor 8mm wires

PBs: ET - 15.259 sec., trap speed - 88.39 mph
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

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Originally Posted by GoldOlds View Post
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the magazines performed their 1/4 mile tests? Did they just do one run and publish those numbers or did they do numerous runs and calculate average ETs and trap speeds? Did they wait for consistent weather conditions between one car and the next?
This has turned out to be quite an interesting thread; I thought the 455s in '68/'69 HO cars were Hurst-installed and I've often wondered which (if any) cars were available with manual disc brakes... every car I've ever seen always seems to have either power disc, power drum or manual drum brakes.

- GoldOlds
Most of the period magazine articles used several runs and published the best, not the average. These were not scientific tests. The magazine would have a certain amount of time at the track and had to make the best of it. The times were usually not corrected for weather. It's only since OCIR closed and the magazines needed to run at L.A. County Raceway in Palmdale (at 2500 ft) that they even compensated for altitude. Of course, LACR is gone now too...
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:02 PM   #14
Run to Rund

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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

One example is Aug 67 SS&DI testing the 67 W30. They ran many times on the strip and eventually drove it into the 13s. Most magazines did not take that much time, and the writers weren't generally astute enough to know if the car was normal production or a super tuned ringer. An amusing example is the Car & Driver 6 way supercar test in Feb 66. The Ford and Mercury were outrageously non-stock, etc. They guys who brought the 442 were clueless and the magazine guys had to help them get enough runs.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

I can not see how a 70 442 W30 would be any faster than a 68 or 69 HO same comp, heads flow the same, same block and crank.The cam was bigger in the 70W30. If you are racing them to day you would be using 2010 cam tech not a cam out of the 60's. The intakes flow the same as well so how can it be any faster?
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:11 PM   #16
one442

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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnhard View Post
I can not see how a 70 442 W30 would be any faster than a 68 or 69 HO
They weren't... at least according to published road tests. But its really just a flip of the coin.

1968 Hurst/Olds 13.9 sec @ 103 mph in the 1/4 mile
1969 Hurst/Olds 13.98 sec @ 101.3 mph
1969 Hurst/Olds 14.03 sec @ 101 mph

1970 455 W30 14.10 @ 100.5 mph

Pretty much the quickest Olds money could buy from 1966-1970 were in the same ball park. They were all fu**ing beasts. Yet I still go with the 400 "six pack" as the King Of Kings. It was a purpose built extreme side of things factory race car.

"Aside from the COPO Camaros and Novas released by Chevrolet, the '66 W-30s were the only purpose-built race cars built by any GM division to ever race for points in NHRA competition."

"Air conditioning, automatic transmission or heavy-duty cooling were not available."
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1987 442 STOCK 307 - 15.179 @ 88.58 mph


7A head VIN 9 KZF 200-4R with a 8.5 3.73 air delete. Open/no air filter. 2 1/4" true dual Flowmasters with crossover. Alloy, mags, drums, and rad, 3560 race weight. Timing 22*, 23.8 inch diameter rear tires (4.07). Hypertech S R Chip. Mobile 1


http://one442.blogspot.com/


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1967 Cutlass 2dr 330, 1972 98 455, 1966 442 a2 400, 1971 Eldo 500
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

I see one olds missing.
91 Cutlass Calais Quad 442 W-41
14.5 sec @ 95.7
Top Speed: 142 MPH.

Might be faster, might be slower. I don't really trust magazines. Are they on a drag track or street.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

The 66 442 W30 was available on the el cheapo F85 model. This was the lightest, and with no radio or heater, the racers worked to reach the shipping weight for a 442 of 3454 lb. On Sept. 66, Vance Brady/John Molnar (the Rund team) won and then got busted when tech found their 116 lb. spare tire.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

According to Car Craft, they ran a new 70 W30 13.97/100.17. Showroom tires/exhaust, th400, 3.42, power steering disconnected, air filter removed, and vacuum door removed.

They go on to say they ran against a "similarly equipped with a Turbohydro" 70 W30 with 3.90 gear in "showroom trim" that ran 13.63/103.56. Swapping to 4.30, Jardine headers, M&H 10.50's in an otherwise stock Olds, = 12.96/108

We're splitting hairs here. They're both impressive machines.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:14 PM   #20
one442

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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MX442 View Post
power steering disconnected, air filter removed, and vacuum door removed.

They go on to say they ran against a "similarly equipped with a Turbohydro" 70 W30 with 3.90 gear in "showroom trim" that ran 13.63/103.56.

We're splitting hairs here. They're both impressive machines.
You see that's the thing to me this is tweaked not box stock.

....and yes they are both very impressive machines. As a matter of fact I will say that all 1966-1972 W30s are extremely impressive.
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1987 442 STOCK 307 - 15.179 @ 88.58 mph


7A head VIN 9 KZF 200-4R with a 8.5 3.73 air delete. Open/no air filter. 2 1/4" true dual Flowmasters with crossover. Alloy, mags, drums, and rad, 3560 race weight. Timing 22*, 23.8 inch diameter rear tires (4.07). Hypertech S R Chip. Mobile 1


http://one442.blogspot.com/


Past rides
1967 Cutlass 2dr 330, 1972 98 455, 1966 442 a2 400, 1971 Eldo 500
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:19 AM   #21
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

My dads best friend bought a 69 442 W30 brand new in 68, he has a nice poster of it still, it was silver with 4 speed on the floor with 4.66 dealer installed gears and Isky? cam (he had the dealer install a new cam he thinks it was a isky cam), and bench seat with steel wheels with no caps cause he had keystones already for it. It ended up running 12 flat on street tires and lots of tunning (he said theres lots of tricks to get byplys to hook) He raced it alot and it ended up having a 455 backed with TH400 then sold it to buy a motorcycle, yes he kicks himself now, but back then with gas the way it was and all his friends had bikes it was a good idea.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by one442 View Post
"Aside from the COPO Camaros and Novas released by Chevrolet, the '66 W-30s were the only purpose-built race cars built by any GM division to ever race for points in NHRA competition."[/b]
Sorry, but that's not true... there were Super Duty Pontiacs and other GM models created with specific NHRA classes in mind.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:51 AM   #23
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Run to Rund View Post
On Sept. 66, Vance Brady/John Molnar (the Rund team) won and then got busted when tech found their 116 lb. spare tire.
Our family was partial to station wagons back in the day... aside from the extra steel and glass on the back of the car for legitimate weight over the rear axle, the spare tire well was a great hiding place for a little something extra that never got checked.
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:22 AM   #24
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

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Sorry, but that's not true... there were Super Duty Pontiacs and other GM models created with specific NHRA classes in mind.
And if Bunkie Knudsen were still alive, he'd agree with you. That dude was brutal in hard charging the race-ready Pontiacs in the late 50s/early 60s.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:41 PM   #25
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Default Re: Quickest Factory Olds there ever was, 1966 W30 ? I think so...

Olds kept the W30 package pretty quiet so Pontiac or chevy couldn't lobby GM to kill it. Just enough word got out that all the 442s at Indy (NHRA 1966 Nationals on Labor Day) were converted (not clones!, the conversion was factory approved). Pontiac was appalled that the Oldsmobiles were driving around their GTOs. Here is a quote from November 1966 Hot Rod, reporting on the Nationals:
"The focal point for Junior Stock eliminator was the "super cars," the C/stockers. . .Olds division had a half-dozen "slip-stick" operators [engineers] at Indy to oversee almost half of the fifty Ram-air 4-4-2's that seem to have been designed to take the starch out of some tiger tails. [We know today that none of the factory 54 cars was there; the cars were converted race cars that were already being campaigned.] The apparent move to make a GTO-competitive automibile may well have been a surprise to Pontiac. This company's advertising/idea-man Jim Wangers. . .related, "We put a few battery boxes in trunks to make race cars several years ago. Looks like we might just have to do it again."
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