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Old 11-19-2009, 07:37 PM   #1
1nicecutlass
 
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Default Timing chain

What kind of timing chain and gears are used in an '87 vin Y 307. Do the gears have aluminum teeth or plastic or? I'm wondering 'cause occasionally when I floor it, it will pop back through the carb real hard once and then take off.Otherwise it runs fine, it is completely untouched with 209,000 miles on it and uses no oil! It might not have any balls, but I don't think it is going to die any time soon. Thanks in advance.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: Timing chain

The answer is YES. Aluminum and plastic for the cam gear. Steel for the crank gear.

The cam gear usually breaks off the plastic teeth which makes the gear smaller thus instantly retards the cam timing some. That along with chain stretch causes power (lack of) issues. Not to mention the teeth usually end up in the suction strainer of the oil pump.

Do not be surprised one day if the engine just craps out and dies one day and won't start because the teeth have been ground off the cam gear.

But with that, congrats on the longevity!
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing chain

Yeah that's what I figured, my old chevy was plastic, maybe time to rebuild the quadrajet too, the list of stuff I want to do to it in the spring keeps gettin longer!
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Timing chain

Just curious, what mods have others done to 307's? I know you can't build a tire screamer or 5.0 mustang eater with one, just want a little more oomph!
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Timing chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nicecutlass View Post
Just curious, what mods have others done to 307's? I know you can't build a tire screamer or 5.0 mustang eater with one, just want a little more oomph!
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Originally Posted by 1nicecutlass View Post
my old chevy was plastic, maybe time to rebuild the quadrajet too, the list of stuff I want to do to it in the spring keeps gettin longer!
My best advice is to not rebuild that combo.
Unfortunately, 307's are like condoms. A 1 time use deal, unless you like to be weird & freaky and live dangerously for no good reason.

I know I know, you had so many good times together and still are in love, but you are nearing the end my friend. Beware.

After 200k miles, those bores will be shaped like easter eggs. It's best to start with something bigger or better if you want a little more oomph.

You could find a low mile 350 with an arrow straight standard bore for under 200 bucks.

The computer qjet is salvageable, but I don't recommend rebuilding that either unless you have to for state laws. But 307s were the historically worst emission failures so I don't see any state recommending that setup.

Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 11-19-2009 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:46 PM   #6
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Default New tech on the factory timin chain.

Like many of you for years I believed that the nylon coating on the aluminum cam sprocket was the issue with the slop in the timing chain. I have found this not to be the case.

While changing the timing chain in my 67K mile '87 due to 15* of rotation with the crank before the distributor moved. When the timing cover was pulled off the timing chain was very sloppy, and still intact was a cam sprocket with its nylon coated teeth. Looking at the crank sprocket there were visible signs of the individual links beginning to dig into the cranks teeth. Similar marks and indents are in the nylon teeth of the cam sprocket. With the crank and cam sprockets removed I tried fitting the old chain over both sprockets. There is a misalignment of the chain teeth.

The GM timing chain is at fault.
Originally the timing chain is made up of 'C' sections of links that create the chain. To keep the chain from falling off the sprockets the outer most links are flipped to keep the chain from derailing. However these outer links still consist of the 'C' links. These links cannot maintain their original shape under tension and begin to stretch. At which point the teeth misalign against the sprockets. The links no longer create a single triangular tooth when wrapped around the sprockets at the correct angle, they create a jagged or 'W' shape per each toot h. This does two things, one is chain stretch, causing retarded timing of both cam and distributor. The other is the chains teeth now act as a saw on the nylon teeth causing damage to the nylon coated teeth, which when they fail exacerbates the retarded timing issue.

FWIW, when I replaced the timing changing on my 260 years ago there was 20* of retard.The cam sprocket was missing all of its nylon and was pretty beat up. I'm going to go with the theory, the chain will stretch causing ~16* of retard, the final 5* will be from the nylon teeth missing.

EDIT: Keep in mind a few things when changing the timing chain. The timing dots are in the 12 O'clock position for TDC. The original crank sprockets keyway is not fully machined, when trying to remove the sprocket with a puller, install balancer bolt w/out the washer and rotate the flat of the bolt head to allow the keyway to slide forward. To keep the jackshaft centered on the bolt head, use the correct size socket and use the square drive as an alignment pocket to keep the shaft from walking.
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Last edited by MADMIKE : 05-10-2011 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Timing chain

Ive noticed a lot of factory replacement timing sets, dynagear is one of them where the chains seem to rapidly slacken up, i dont know if this is done on purpose (i doubt it) but i can tell you this, when i originally did the cam swap on the 403 the engine probably had 10,000 miles on it.. or less.. and the chain certainly was sloppy! (i replaced it in 2002 and swapped the cam in 2005)

Just beware of the brand you use I guess.. or if your feeling bold advance the cam timing a little bit to compensate for future wear!
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: Timing chain

My Melling set looked good after a few thousand miles. The Cloyes standard set might also do.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Timing chain

Wow! I forgot about this thread! Still haven't put a timing set in it yet. I've been having way too many carb/CCC problems to get to that yet.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing chain

Man, just noticed this is from 2009!
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Timing chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by olds307 and 403 View Post
The Cloyes standard set might also do.
Replacement set I used was C-3006K UPC-7 50385 80006 0
Timing marks and teeth lined up with the original sprockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nicecutlass
I've been having way too many carb/CCC problems to get to that yet.
Trying to tune around a severely retarded camshaft is
PDS code would set nearly everytime I would cruise down a long hill with no brake or accelerator input. Finally checked the timing chain to find it to be sloppy. If the engine is mechanically flawed its kind of silly to tune around improperly working parts.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Timing chain

I'm sure you're right Madmike, better put that on the parts needed list too.
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