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View Full Version : Differences between Buick, olds, and Pontiac 455's


85OLDS
07-24-2001, 08:28 PM
I was just wondering what the main differences where between the three motors mechanically??? Which has the most potenial for horse-power and torque???
I have a chance to get my hands on a good running Buick 455 cheap from a friend and I was wondering if anyone knows the good and bad points for Buick 455's. Since being informed that my 403 doesn't stand much chance of being built up to make some major horepower, I have been searching for a big block olds to build up. I have not found a single BBO of any kind in any of the local junkyards and I have checked out about 12 so far. Would a Buick 455 fit in my 85' Cutlass??? The car had originally been a V-6 car so it was a half breed car from day one so I'm not really worried about the Olds in an Olds thing since this is all I can find.
Thanks for the help.

Tim H
07-24-2001, 08:44 PM
They are as different as compared to a chevy.
*buick has the dist up front and are a real fight to get the dist loose to adjust while running.
*Pontiac at least you can get 1:65 rockers and make a ram4 cam lope real good.
But kind of weak in the crank and rods area.
*Olds 455 has forged factory rods and you don't have to pull the distibutar to change intakes like a chevy. Plus you can tighen down the rocker arms to 20lbs and your done.
Of the 3 BOP I like Olds.
Thats just the tip of the iceberg in the differences.

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1971 Cutlass Supreme,461,W-25,W-26-W-35

FLiNT
07-24-2001, 09:48 PM
Go to http://oldsmagnet.com under the tech pages you will find some good tips for a buick v6 to buick 455 swap. The buick 455 is one wicked engine too, theres a few companies devoted to these torque monsters. TA perfromance and postons I think. Have fun.

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Gavin Neaf
'67 F-85 club coupe - 330
'71 Cutlass S, for sale!

RAVEN
07-24-2001, 10:04 PM
Well....400 ram-air 3-4 engines, 455 HO, '61-'63 421 Super Duty and '73-'74SD used forged rods. Cast rods are good to at least 6300 RPM if you need to take it that far, all Pontiac rods will interchange except the 301. The 455 cranks do bend at a high RPM, most of the Pontiac engines I have built never seen over 5800 RPM. On Pontiacs you don't have to pull the dist. to change intakes http://www.oldspower.com/ubb/wink.gif, better head and cam combos for the olds and pontiac, there are alot of differences and ups and downs to each engine, but my eyes are toward the PONTIAC, check the sig. http://www.oldspower.com/ubb/biggrin.gif sorry fellow Olds pals http://www.oldspower.com/ubb/smile.gif
Here is a site that may be of some help with Pontiacs http://www.pontiaconline.com/
Buicks are way cool to, but way to costly.
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http://www.funnygreetings.com/spy.gif
'85 Buick T-Type .030 over 455 Pontiac/7.76@90.91mph
'87 Olds Cutlass Salon
Buick 231 3.8 V6
t-tops, bucket seats,
a few mods.....and more
to come. 9.90@70.13mph/2.31 60'
1/8 mile
http://members.tripod.com/pontiac-g-body/

[This message has been edited by RAVEN (edited 07-24-2001).]

64cutty
07-24-2001, 10:27 PM
From what I've heard (clang clang clang) 425 buicks don't rev well.

79CutlassSupreme
07-25-2001, 04:51 AM
455 Buicks don't need RPM. They are a low RPM torque motor. My vote 455 Buick.

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http://www.dickmillerracing.com/RupStock00.jpg
'79 Cutlass Supreme 350 Olds 13.55 @ 99 MPH
'85 T-Type 231 Buick 12.58 @ 105 MPH
'86 GN 231 Buick 12.22 @ 113 MPH
'96 Impala SS 350 LT1 14.71 @ 93 MPH
'97 Corvette 350 LS1 13.47 @ 104 MPH
'00 Silverado 327 LS1 16.15 @ 87 MPH

85OLDS
07-25-2001, 06:07 AM
I was just wondering because I can get a Buick 455 and a TH-400 out of a running Buick Regal for cheap and this car really hauls ass, I know, I drove it http://www.oldspower.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I read somewhere that a 70's Buick 455 made around 360 HP and 510 pound feet of torque stock!!!! I converted my car over to a 403Olds a while ago but I'm not real impressed with it in almost stock form and I can get the 455 for less than an edelbrock intake and a new cam.

Tim H
07-25-2001, 06:57 AM
Since you have changed the motor once then you know how you might as well give it a shot.It isn't the first and won't be the last once you know how.
A couple things to concider is the fuel line is on the other side and the battery sits oppiste.
I don't know about your first motor,but you might of went thru all this already.

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1971 Cutlass Supreme,461,W-25,W-26-W-35

DIRTRACER
07-25-2001, 06:59 AM
If you've ever been lucky enough to drive a Buick GS with a 455 you would probably agree that it is one of the most haulin ass torque monsters GM ever made.

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IMCA Dirt Modified Racing
http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=RoodvoetsRacing&ID_Topic=2&ID_Message=2&Action_Flag=1

spiderbass
07-25-2001, 12:31 PM
If you want low end torque, find yourself an early to mid 70's Cadillac 500 Rodac(sp?). I saw hotrod magazine put one in an 84 Grand Prix, that was bad ass. Had a pic of it going around a corner, couldn't see the back half of the car, too much tire smoke. They said that the engine was an absolute torque GOD. Just a suggestion.


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1988 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
5liter, 4 bbl, 4 speed auto w/OD, Ralleye dash, 442 suspension, T-tops (yeah, in a Brougham, odd huh?), 2.56 L/S rear end , and sooooo comfortable to cruise in!

Fox
07-25-2001, 01:14 PM
Saw ad in the local paper where some guy was selling an old Cadillac with a 500 engine for $375. What models do you think that engine would fit in? A body, G body? What kind of performance parts are even available for something like that. Somehow I doubt you can just find headers off the shelf. Freaking 500 ci!! Imagine what you could do with that even in mild state of tune. 450 HP and 560 ft-lbs of torque flat all the way up to 4500 RPM hahahah. Locomotive engine?

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Fox

Brian
07-25-2001, 01:58 PM
there is a guy with an 8x 442 that has a caddy 500 engine. i dont know the address off hand, but ive seen it. i think i found it in the olds web ring... anyway, the engine does fit (albeit, a tad tight!)

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Brian
-OldsPower Admin

403_Delta88
07-25-2001, 02:23 PM
There was an article in Hot Rod magazine about a cad 500 swap into a G-body, not long ago.

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Jim
'77 Delta 88, 403
soon to be gone '85 Cutlass Supreme, 231

79CutlassSupreme
07-25-2001, 05:32 PM
Maximun Torque Specialties is one place that does Cadillac performance. There is another place too, but I can't think of the name. These places have the parts to put a Caddy in any G-body.

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http://www.dickmillerracing.com/RupStock00.jpg
'79 Cutlass Supreme 350 Olds 13.55 @ 99 MPH
'85 T-Type 231 Buick 12.58 @ 105 MPH
'86 GN 231 Buick 12.22 @ 113 MPH
'96 Impala SS 350 LT1 14.71 @ 93 MPH
'97 Corvette 350 LS1 13.47 @ 104 MPH
'00 Silverado 327 LS1 16.15 @ 87 MPH

JAYSRTD
07-25-2001, 07:49 PM
Fox, you just might want to get that 500 ci Caddy monster, I have an issue of Hot Rod mag. around someplace that has their buildup. I'll look for it and post more info.

last h/o
07-25-2001, 08:28 PM
Hey, folks. I found the website we're all racking our brains over. Here's the link, http://home.tampabay.rr.com/olds442/ . I hope this helps.


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1986 Cutlass Supreme, 455
1986 Cutlass Salon (mnrf)
1984 Hurst/Olds (sunroof)
1984 Cutlass Brougham,403
1987 Cutlass Salon (Ttop)
1983 Hurst/Olds, 383
1984 Hurst/Olds (Ttop)
1987 442 (stock, so far)

FLiNT
07-25-2001, 10:17 PM
The other performance company is CAD motersports or maybe its CMD. I saw some guys webpage where he cut the front half off a 500 cid eldorado and welded it in place of the back half of an old beetle where the tiny engine used to be, talk about crazy.

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Gavin Neaf
'67 F-85 club coupe - 330
'71 Cutlass S, for sale!

Chris Somers
09-19-2001, 07:23 PM
Man, it must be a terrible thing to live in an area where no junkyard can produce a big block Olds... Make no mistake I love an Olds engine all day long but Buick 430 and 455 engines are champs for totally different reasons than an Olds 455. An Olds 425 and Buick 430 are very similar in comparison spec wise. Both are awesome mid-range performers. Bore, stroke, rod length are just about the same. Buicks don't have the exhaust port problems the Olds heads have. Olds created the 455 by stroking the hell out of thier engine and considering the "B" bodies of the time, I'm sure it was a perfectly good option. My 4800 pound '73 Olds Delta 88 is bone stock with a junkyard HEI ignition, dual exhaust, 2.93 Buick/Olds heavyduty service rear with limited slip. Sixty foot times are 2.19 with some el-cheapo tires and it runs 15.5 through the quarter. How many stocker american bread n butter sedans can pull these numbers. Matter of fact, this one came from a local junkyard here in Ohio. Low end torque and real world rpm's in such a vehicle warrant such bore to stroke figures. When I was a kid, My old man ran a '71 442. I remember the heads had a mild porting job from a local shop. Bottom end was basically stock except for fasteners and the cam was around .530" lift. With a 10" converter, 4.10 gears this car ran a best of 12.18 in the quarter. He was shifting at around 6400 and going through the traps at the same. I was just a kid at the time and felt that his shift points were a little out of the power band and that a little less gear would have been more appropriate considering that the motor was huffing by 6400. At 3800lbs, the car ran strong and pop's was satisfied that I was wrong. I sure would like to have had the chance to know other wise but he eventaully sold the car to Mondello and thats the last I ever saw it. Oh well. Buick on the other hand went with a larger bore and in turn created an engine that wasn't as limited by rpm due to such high piston speed. All of these engines are capable of mass torque and equal power figures in stock form. An Olds 455 is much more efficient at low-end torque due to it's 4.25" stroke. But with stock lower end components the Buick is a champ if you plan on making power at over 5500 rpm's... All of these engines require oiling attention but this should never keep anyone from considering one. Ask anyone who runs one... In all reality, your wallet and your heart should be the deciding factor because in the real world, any of these engines will make serious power. If the car is set up right, the only difference in set up with these engines in mind would be the converter and your rear end ratio. And if your a real junky you'll dig up a switch pitch th 400 and do it right. I have a friend who runs a Buick 455 in a two door '76 Buick Le Saber. the car has a Buick/Olds heavy duty service rear from a early seventies Riv GS with a 3.42 gear and limited slip.(who needs a chevy 12 bolt or ford nine inch when you can have a non C-clip 9 3/8ths" ring gear monster with an eaton style rebuildable posi.)FYI, 71-75 Buick Olds "B" body. He runs a switch pitch th400, quadrajet from a mid seventies smog 350, and some typical engine mods. This car does have full three inch exhaust and will wake the neighbors at two in the morning. His car weigh's 4900 lbs and turns 13.3 in the quarter... He runs at the buick nat's every year. Lot's o power and a awesome set up. Converter, proper gear and worn out front shocks. He has a '76 four door with power everything, air conditioning and a mild 430. This car has 2.25" exhaust with flowmasters, weighs 5100 pounds and runs a 14.5 through the quarter. My '73 jet boat runs a 455 olds with a Berkley pump. This is a stock boat and they really did thier homework with engine choice and didn't stray to much until '76 when the Olds 455 went out thanks to many things... In these pumps, impeller diameter is constant. Run a Chevy small block and you'll have to run an impeller with less pitch so you can run the engine at higher rpms with consideration to power band and rpm. Less pitch means less surface area per blade and is therefore less efficient. The 455 is a champ for this application. I smash the throttle and the 455 rolls right to 4100 rpm's. a second later it's leveled at 4350 to 4400. It's planted at that point. Who cares when the sixty mph speedo is buried and water is shooting out of the hose connection at the back of the gauge. The actual top speed is unverified but the thing eats the lake. The 455 here is perfect in stocker form. Man I love an Olds engine. Anyway's Caddy, Pontiac Buick or Olds, It's all about set up and attention to timing curve and carb tune. If you can't find Olds 455s, get to Ohio or any other stinking state where mindless scab's destroy awesome no rust "B" body's in demolition derby's. They love to pull BOP engines and litter thier front yards with them so they can make room for thier "derby special" small block shivvy's. Good luck. Any of these engines will roll a smile onto your face and help polute the neighbors picnic with smoke from the burnout's.